Curse

LifeInfusion · Jun 21, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Introduction
Ever since beta, the WaMo has been ridiculed because of the dreadful paladin pre-made build that newer players run in PvP. Needless to say, speccing 8 healing prayers for Mending and healing hands doesn't give great DPS.
The recent buff to Warrior's Endurance spawned a new idea for me to try to make the combination workable outside of Mending Touch.

WaMo Endurance

Warrior/Monk
Level: 20

Strength: 12 (11+1)
Swordsmanship: 13 (11+2)
Tactics: 4 (3+1)
Smiting Prayers: 8

- Warrior's Endurance [Elite] (Strength) <-- 3 energy per hit, breakpoint of 29 seconds at 12 strength
- Hamstring (Swordsmanship) <-- you wouldn't be able to afford this any other way!
- Power Attack (Strength) <-- typical WaMo skill, now actually made effective with Warrior's Endurance
- Final Thrust (Swordsmanship) <-- Final Thrust was in the pre-made Paladin build, so I just HAD to put it in
- Balthazar's Spirit (Smiting Prayers) <-- this gives 1 energy whenever you are hit, meaning lots of energy to spam the WaMO's favorite POWER ATTACK
- Mending Touch (Protection Prayers) <-- wow, condition removal, who would've guessed
- Lion's Comfort (Strength) <-- 90 point heal, without using Heal Sig's -40armor or speccing in mending and healing hands trash
- Resurrection Chant (Healing Prayers) <-- wow, you have a res, go use it OUTSIDE of battle

Sideboard:
- Counterattack (Strength) instead of Power Attack, for less energy reliance
- Savage Slash (Swordsmanship) instead of Hamstring, for interrupt power. Needless to say, this wasn't usable without Warrior's endurance
- Standing Slash (Swordsmanship) instead of Final Thrust for more consistent damage but less spiking power
- Seeking Blade (Swordsmanship) instead of Hamstring, to deal with blocking
- Smite Hex (Smiting Prayers) instead of Mending Touch, if you are in a tam with an Restore Condition or Blessed light monk
- Judge's Insight (Smiting Prayers) instead of Balthazar's Spirit, if you feel that you can handle the energy and maintainence

Thrown out:
- Strength of Honor (Smiting Prayers) - even after the buff, you might as well use Judge's Insight or conjures
- Reversal of Damage (Smiting Prayers) - it is nice, but it doesn't fit with the idea of a warrior and it requires a lot of maintainence and recasting time so it is best on a caster

Tactical issues:
Due to reliance on both stances and enchantments, the WaMo has always been prone to mesmers.

Endnotes:
+34/35 damage every 3 seconds is pretty sweet. Even when your energy stance is down you can use Final Thrust to spike the target as well.

martialis · Jun 21, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

mending and healing hands trash >>>>>>>>>> this

This is a PvE build, yes?

Stormlord Alex · Jun 21, 2007, 05:01 PM // 17:01

It's still a poor build, lacking in many of the key things that make warriors so powerful.

Warrior's Endurance will always suck hard - IAS stances are ftw. It's like Battle Rage, except a whole lot worse, as warriors can do some real damage with adrenaline.

Also, Balthazar's Spirit is horrible outside of bonding and solo farming builds. anything that requires you to be wailed on as a warrior is a no-no in team situations.

LifeInfusion · Jun 21, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by martialis

mending and healing hands trash >>>>>>>>>> this

This is a PvE build, yes?

call any build I make trash but just give a legitimate reason and alternatives. Seriously, I can take harsh criticism but criticism without any reasoning is not adding to the build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

It's still a poor build, lacking in many of the key things that make warriors so powerful.

Warrior's Endurance will always suck hard - IAS stances are ftw. It's like Battle Rage, except a whole lot worse, as warriors can do some real damage with adrenaline.

Also, Balthazar's Spirit is horrible outside of bonding and solo farming builds. anything that requires you to be wailed on as a warrior is a no-no in team situations.

The problem with Warrior's endurance has always been the lack of IAS. I tired to supplement the IAS by giving it spammable attacks skills. There really isn't any way to fit in a speed buff or IAS since Warrior's endurance is a stance.

I figure as a Warrior you will be catching a lot of aggro and being wailed on anyhow and unlike most builds that rely on adrenaline, you could really use the energy. Could always use the mediocre Judge's Insight instead though.

Kaon · Jun 21, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

The new face of the wamo wis 7 warriors skills and mending touch.

martialis · Jun 21, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Yes, well, practice, practice, you know. As for this, you can take everything out of smiting and put in sword and tactics (you want strength and tactics as equal as possible).

As for wammos, healing hands and mystic regeneration are the best self-heals in the game - nothing else even comes close. Healing hands is really, really, really good. Lion's comfort and healing signet are not good. They're viable, and they'll still heal you, and if you really need a self-heal you can use them, but don't delude yourself into thinking they're good. I don't know how to prove this - an elite monk enchantment that triggers when you get hit is better than healing signet. Is that reasonable?

The reason wammos use monk spells for healing is because they lack healing. They don't use spells for protection and damage because they don't lack those things. I shouldn't need to tell you this, should I?

Obviously, I like that build and think it's pretty good. It's ridiculed because people still use it. Who still uses these? http://www.guildwarsguru.com/builds-directory-id215.php

Anyway, take out hamstring, balthazar's spirit and lion's comfort, and replace them with attack skills. Better ones, I mean.

Kale Ironfist · Jun 22, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

On a per use, Healing Hands (being elite) should be better than Healing Signet... until you look at the overall healing over time. Healing Hands has way too much downtime to be useful, and requires ~5 hits per use to equal Healing Signet, assuming 8 Healing Prayers and 9 Tactics (if you're not covering the -40 armor, you're not doing it right). It's also using up 5 energy you could put to better use (like that stance that will protect you better than either of Healing Hands or Healing Signet).

kazjun · Jun 22, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

This is for a pve build right? Cause you have no IAS, no speed buff (though you do have a snare), and you carry no deep wound. Crip slash would probably be better and you can easily combo with gash for bleed, DW and cripple to set up for final as a finisher. On the other hand, a pve build hardly needs hamstring. You'd be better off using a zealous weapon and an actual IAS stance. You'd get plenty of energy and adren.

And healing hands is pretty much pve only. Unless you totally overextend, a warrior isn't going to get targeted enough for it to matter, at least until your teams pretty much gone. Plus anyone with a brain who realises you have HH on you will just go target someone else till it wears off = minimal healing. Though it could work in RA I guess. Your whole team dead you could try and tank them a bit while you res someone.

LifeInfusion · Jun 22, 2007, 03:55 PM // 15:55

The entire point of the build was to use the recently Warrior's Endurance.

Sure, I can go Cripslash. That's elite.
Sure I can bring Healing Hands, but that is an enchantment, elite, and in areas like FoW it isn't going to heal you with Shatter Enchantment around all over the place.
Sure I can bring an IAS. That's a stance.
Sure I can bring a defensive stance. But why bother if I can bring Watch Yourself, especially with hard mode aggro.
Sure I can bring a speed buff. That's a stance unless I bring an enchantment based speed buff like Flame Djinn's Haste or Windborne Speed.

The problem with each of these suggestions you guys are making is that none of them are going to make good use of Warrior's Endurance.

The build is meant to augment the use of Warrior's Endurance in any way possible
-Hamstring/Savage Slash is nonusable in its current state and Warrior's Endurance can fuel it.
-Balthazar's Spirit gives an additional energy and adrenaline, but this is conditional so it can probably be swapped out. I figure you need a way to fuel Lion's Comfort with Final Thrust on the bar
-The energy attacks form the sword tend to rely on you NOT using a stance (Barbarous Slice, Pure strike) except for Standing Slash.
-My favorite tactics skill, Watch Yourself cannot be used effectively on a bar with Final Thrust
-

================================================== =======
In short, it goes to prove Warrior's Endurance is either
A. underpowered being a stance, which means it should be like Warrior's Cunning (skill) or Signet of Strength (signet).
B. not effective with the current set of warrior attack skills
C. underused because people are so dead set on Cripslash and adrenaline based attacks, which means Warrior's Endurance won't see the light of day
D. crap because 3 energy doesn't match a zealous weapon and an IAS.

I'm thinking it is option D, which means the devs need to buff it again if they want to see it used.

Anyhow, if you take off Balthazar's Spirit there is little point in putting smiting in and you can spec tactics.
================================================== ========
WaMo Endurance v2

Warrior/Monk
Level: 20

Strength: 12 (11+1)
Swordsmanship: 13 (11+2)
Tactics: 9 (8+1)

- Warrior's Endurance [Elite] (Strength) <-- 3 energy / hit allows usage of 5 energy attacks on recharge
- Power Attack (Strength) <-- 3 cooldown
- Soldier's Strike (Tactics) <-- 4 cooldown, synergy with Paragons/Watch Yourself users
- Distracting Blow (Warrior other) <-- adrenaline gain per foe interrupted
- Standing Slash (Swordsmanship) <-- bonus damage if in a stance
- Mending Touch (Protection Prayers) /Holy Veil (Monk other)
- Lion's Comfort (Strength) / "Watch Yourself!" (Tactics)
- Resurrection Chant (Healing Prayers)

Sideboard:
- Counterattack (Strength) instead of Distracting Blow, for lower cooldown

Removed choices:
- Savage Slash (Swordsmanship)/Hamstring (Swordsmanship) due to 15 cooldown
- Seeking Blade (Swordsmanship) due to low bonus damage

Stormlord Alex · Jun 22, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

It will never be of use until, like Battle Rage (needs...), it has an inherent IAS. Energy on hit is all well and good, but increasing base damage by 50% > this, still.

Div · Jun 22, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

After being buffed, I can actually see warrior's endurance being used to constantly spam power attack in the lower PvP areas like AB and RA. It pretty much gives you enough energy to power stuff like hamstring too.

glountz · Jun 22, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

It seems Life Infu that you want desperately to use Warrior's Endurance.

Then it's quite easy to boost your damage with that! Even without IAS.

Step 1)
Take a zealous axe.

Step 2)
Load your warrior with fast attacks or damaging attaxcks!
-Warrior's endurance (E).
- Cyclone axe
- Protector's strike
- Critical chop
- Distracting Blow
- Agonizing chop
- Mending touch
- Rez chant.

As you see, you are loaded with 0.5 seconds attacks and one normal speed but AoE attack.

Warrior's endurance sustain the energy pump, with cyclone and agonizing chop and your zealous axe.
You will strike like hell. Some help from friends (I had a smiter with me las t time with Strenght of Honor and Judges Insight) can boost significantly your damage (you could go /El to increase DPS with conjure, but you seem to stick with /mo).

Happy testing!

PS: You can also quick /mo skills to put Furious axe or Power attack or Dismember (to be able to use Agonizing chop at its fullest). You can do a quick Dismember-Distracting blow-critical chop-agonizing chop-protector strike combo ^^)
PPS: As a wammo, you don't need speed boost right?

LifeInfusion · Jun 22, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Hmm Cyclone Axe seems to be an extremely good choice actually since you can charge up Lion's Comfort and other adrenaline attacks. I only used W/Mo because I started from the Paladin build and started modifying it

It also let's me get in a speed buff, deep wound, and a conjure without having to use sever-gash (barbarous slice = gash doesn't work under stance).

================================================== ======
About Warrior's Endurance: My stance on skills (no pun intended) has always been that there has to be a way to get it to work decently, even if it doesn't have the greatest effectiveness as cookie cutters.
I mean, it is PVE for crying out loud! Most time I run builds I do it with heros and henches anyway. I only cookiecutter when PUGing, and it allows me to develop both a grasp of cookiecutters and the entirety of the 1000+ skills. I mean, cripslash is a fine build, but when that's all you run in PVE are you really a good player or just copying an established build and following orders?
Besides PVE is a testbed, not PvP. No one is asking you to run Warrior's endurance in PvP, because people carry Wild blow/strike.

================================================== =======
With glountz's inspiration I present:

W/E War Endurance (Fire Variant)

Warrior/Elementalist
Level: 20

Strength: 12 (11+1)
Axe Mastery: 13 (11+2)
Tactics: 4 (3+1)
Fire Magic: 8

- Warrior's Endurance [Elite] (Strength)
- Protector's Strike (Strength) <-- 5 energy, 3 recharge attack, 0.5 activation
- Cyclone Axe (Axe Mastery) <-- 4 recharge AoE
- Dismember (Axe Mastery) <-- deep wound
- Conjure Flame (Fire Magic) <-- 15 fire damage
- Flame Djinn's Haste (Fire Magic) <-- speed buff
- Lion's Comfort (Strength) <-- heal fueled by Cyclone Axe
- Resurrection Signet ()

Sideboard:
- Distracting Blow (Warrior other) instead of Dismember, for more AoE and no deep wound
================================================== =======
W-E War Endurance (Water Magic edition)

Warrior/Elementalist
Level: 20

Strength: 12 (11+1)
Axe Mastery: 13 (11+2)
Tactics: 4 (3+1)
Water Magic: 8

- Warrior's Endurance [Elite] (Strength)
- Protector's Strike (Strength)
- Cyclone Axe (Axe Mastery)
- Dismember (Axe Mastery)
- Conjure Frost (Water Magic)
- Armor of Mist (Water Magic)
- Lion's Comfort (Strength)
- Resurrection Signet ()

Sideboard:
- Frozen Burst (Water Magic) instead of Armor of Mist, if 15 energy is doable for you with cyclone axe
- Frigid Armor (Water Magic) for people that think tanking is what warriors are for

W-E War Endurance (Air edition)

Warrior/Elementalist
Level: 20

Strength: 12 (11+1)
Axe Mastery: 13 (11+2)
Tactics: 4 (3+1)
Air Magic: 8

- Warrior's Endurance [Elite] (Strength)
- Protector's Strike (Strength)
- Cyclone Axe (Axe Mastery)
- Dismember (Axe Mastery)
- Distracting Blow (Warrior other)
- Conjure Lightning (Air Magic)
- Lion's Comfort (Strength)
- Resurrection Signet ()

Sideboard:
- Whirlwind (Air Magic) instead of Distracting Blow for PBAoE damage, which is doable under Warrior's Endurance
- Bull's Strike (Strength) instead of Distracting Blow to deal with lack of speed buff

glountz · Jun 22, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Life, if you don't need a rez or a self heal (as your monk is RoXXoR ) then feel free to put agonizing chop.
It's 0.5 sec activation, you spam it along protector strike.
When you tank, you take damage so you fill very quickly adren, along with cyclone axe, so agonizing chop can amasingly be spammed like hell along Dismember and protector strike, giving very helpful mini-spikes.
However, the all-mighty flail will be the core of most axe based PVE builds I fear...

LifeInfusion · Jun 22, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09

If your monk is ALESIA/KHIM/MHENLO, you will need a res AND self heal.

masta_yoda · Jun 22, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

this build blows , no offence

often i bring a rit hero along with me with splinter weapon
and my bar is like this.....

flail, dismember, cyclone axe, triple chop, conjure lightning or any other weapons, res sig, d blow, lions comfort

splinter+cyclone or triple+ conjure = mass damage in mobs

LifeInfusion · Jun 23, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by masta_yoda

this build blows , no offence

often i bring a rit hero along with me with splinter weapon
and my bar is like this.....

flail, dismember, cyclone axe, triple chop, conjure lightning or any other weapons, res sig, d blow, lions comfort

splinter+cyclone or triple+ conjure = mass damage in mobs

That doesn't use Warrior's Endurance and it doesn't have a cancel stance for Flail. So I don't know why you bothered posting that.

pingu666 · Jun 23, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

warriors endurance works best with a axe, or a scythe (ghetto koss build cos i didnt have a spare warrior weapon xD)

cyclone axe and maybe the new whirling sunspear thingy
dismember
furious axe
power attack
counter attack
soldiers strike

depending on what your fighting, might be better than a ias, as bonus damage is armour ignoring, some endgame areas make your autoatacks pretty low

glountz · Jun 25, 2007, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Life I tried this build in AB, RA and Alliance friendly GvG, to see if it was PvP-viable:
Equipement:
Full sentinel armor
Flaming axe, +20% enchants.
Stance shield.
8 Fire
11+2 Strenght
11+1+2 Axe

Flame Djin Haste
Conjure flame
Soldier's stance [E]
Dismember
Power attack
Protector strike
Agonizing chop
Rez signet or for AB Critical chop

Well, this build has weaknesses. The first is that it forces you to be wary of your energy, if you plan to spam energy based attacks. If blocking/missing/blinding is too present in the opposition, it wil lseriously hamper your energy gained. You have to be wary when block is very present not to spam energy based attacks that would be screwed. Target switching is the key.
The second is that a wild blow screw it. Third is that if you have to run too much, you won't be able to renew both soldier's and flame djinn haste as you won't be regaining energy on hit.
The third is that it is more sensitive to enchant removal (mass enchant removal screw your movement ability).

Its strenghts:
1)The DPS is here. Seriously. As you spam Power attack and Protector strike, you have a better DPS when charging adre than "normal" conjure warriors. I think (But I have to see the numbers), that Soldier's DPS is equivalent to a frenzied warrior, thanks to Power attack and Protector strike, without its drawback. However, too much blocking will hurt your e-management, thing that a frenzied warrior don't care.

2)As you spam it, paragon shouts are quite useful! You won't only trigger them on spikes, but on "regular power attacks" too! GoTE is very handy!

3)Protector strike is godly. I use it on fleeing targets, its a 100+damage critical if they present their back. I would have never used it before, thinking it too conditional but it hurts.

4)Chasing ability is more than okay, more than a conventional warrior. As you have a +33% speed boost, fleing targets, even with minor speed boosts one, can't flee far. And protector strike seriously punish them. As a 0.5 sec cast strike, you are even not slowed by your attack when chasing.

5) The spike is more than okay, roughly equivalent to an IAS one IMO, probably a little less inferior. I use Dismember-power attack-Agonizing chop-Protector strike.
If Dismember-power attack are not stopped, the rest will kill your target. It is interrupted by Agonizing chop, and take a serious hit with protector if it flees. In AB I add Critical chop to further enhance the damage.

So in short: This build is PvP viable. Is the best ? I doubt it, but it can be a real alternative if you want to try something new (especially after the nerf of crippling slash warriors).

LifeInfusion · Jun 25, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Soldier's stance [E] needs a shout/chant, doesn't it?